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Post by Perez on Feb 3, 2014 0:15:49 GMT 10
Hello, and welcome to this thread.
I decided to make this thread so we could discuss how we would have wanted multiplayer to be -- if Farbs were to implement multiplayer at all, that is. I thought this would be a good idea to hear the opinion of everyone who's active on this forum. This way we can create an idea of how multiplayer is preferred for everyone, and how the game should be balanced. As well as that, we can have some additional stuff to talk about. I feel like the forum is quite empty these days ...
Just go ahead and type whatever that involves multiplayer down below in the reply section. Maybe Farbs will visit the forum and have a look at the different and personal opinions we have on this implementation. I mean, don't we all want multiplayer on Captain Jameson? Or maybe even another game with a name, like, Captain Multiplayer?
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Post by auburnattack21 on Feb 3, 2014 12:53:13 GMT 10
Well, the first order of business would be to discuss the method of advancing in the game. After all, there are 11 ranks (I think we should have Lima also in the multiplayer, but hey) and it's not a piece of cake to just go from one to the next. So, it's definitely not a good idea to just have a free-for-all where you pick up anything you want. That would reward luck and speed, which is not good. Instead, we need some sort of authorization ladder. Now, of course, this ladder would run on some sort of experience system, based on killing jackers and doing missions. I think, when jackers are killed, the parts disintegrate. (I realize this isn't in the heart of what Captain Forever stands for, but we need to be sure no one abuses the system).
So the basic experience system would be the 11 classes, and I think it would be even more fun to divide it into, say, five sections each, for a total of 55 levels. And I think, if we wanted to introduce Lima, that would be the max level, so 56.
What we could also do is have experience levels for different kinds of weapons, boosters...so that at max they would preform as they do in the regular games. Essentially, you would be responsible for upgrading each one's stat, such as power, rate of fire, and range. Maybe give each three upgrades, so the max level is 10.
For example, a standard laser Alpha, at level 10, has power 500 J, RoF 1 Hz, and range of...however long a red laser fires. But at level 1, it is only 125 J, RoF 250mHz, and range of a 1/4 as long. So each upgrade spent increases it by a quarter.
Oh, so much to think about! I'm going to go make another Microsoft Word document.
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Post by Perez on Feb 4, 2014 3:48:05 GMT 10
First of all, I personally like the idea of having 56 experience levels -- gives us players something to live up for, eh? I don't know how Lima would look like, due to the fact that Kilo is rainbow. Perhaps a green colour with special particles? Or maybe pure white? However, introducing Lima would be pretty exciting. Now, if we're on the same track here, granting every player the ability to grab modules and utilities would indeed be a ragequit-teaser, like, if a random player come by and steal your precious loot whilst you're just halfway through your re-configuration, or after you defeat a difficult hostile. For this there are some ways to prevent it from happening: - Player-specific drops The one who last-hits an enemy, gets to choose between letting the parts only be available to the player (Private), the player and added companions on friend-list (Friends Only) or neither, letting the items become publicly available once scattered around the area. - "Aura"-drops The items dropped from an enemy vessel only become obtainable to the player -- or multiple players -- within a certain radius until the player leaves. The modules would then become publicly available. - Timed drops The parts lost from a ship is only obtainable for a certain time for the player(s) before everyone is given the opportunity to snag each and every part
Gaining EXP from completing missions and defeating jackers is a clever way of doing it. I understand that it is the main concept of Captain Forever and its spin-offs to be able to gain the leftover modules you get from destroying a hostile, and the fact that the system must be fair and in order. Perhaps there could be a certain area for people to enter, where modules only there would be obtainable? We need at least some areas one can go and find useful attachments.
Your experience system sounds fair and quite awesome, if I say so myself! It is a very smart system that would balance the game for a good amount. With the upgrades, things become more customizable and follows a personal preference. I want to come up with a little add, though: Players cannot enter wormholes -- which transfers the player to the next tier -- before reaching the current tier's max level. One needs to obtain at least one tier that is higher than the current before given access to gain more experience.
People tend to forget the genius ideas they had mere seconds ago. Remember to write them down as soon as possible! I'll come up with some ideas for the multiplayer version as well once I have time.
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Post by Foohman on Feb 4, 2014 6:14:38 GMT 10
Much apologies for my absence. University, etc etc. I'll be much, much more active in around a fortnight! After giving this thread a good read I must say you've got some good ideas. I hope Farbs comes along at some point.
At the moment, I can't think of much to add to what you've already discussed, and what has been suggested in other threads on the forum already, including a co-op variety of Jameson which I think may be more practical and balanced than a full MMORPG type game. A server-based, two to four player co-op would be extremely fun, especially considering a incremental increase of jackers with each additional pilot.
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Post by Perez on Feb 4, 2014 6:45:57 GMT 10
Everything's fine -- glad you're back!
MMORPG is indeed taking it a bit too far, even though it might have sounded like MMO was what we were trying to achieve. But as said, they're just ideas one comes up with, which are always fun to read and consider. I think, at least. Anyway, we're not necessarily trying to achieve a complete world-wide multiplayer setup. We just want some form of multiplayer, and here we simply come up with ideas that could've been implemented.
I'm not trying to talk back on you, just kind of informing you? English is not my native language. I hope you've realized that up to this point.
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Post by auburnattack21 on Feb 4, 2014 6:53:24 GMT 10
Alright, so I'm already in the process of making the document, and I've come up with some other ideas. Firstly, I've changed the ranks per tier to 10, not 5. They go from Grade I to Grade X. So, when you level up, you get one point to assign to one of the three upgrade paths for weapons. You have to do a special mission to upgrade your authorization to the next tier.
Second, the most pressing question: what is the experience curve going to look like? And how much experience is dropped by jackers? Clearly, we want a percentage-based curve similar to other MMORPG's, but also the jackers' experience should be curved somewhat too. The amount of exp a given jacker gives is decided by first, the tier of the command module, second, the complexity of the ship, and third, how much a certain player deals to the CM. (KSers would have to wait for the module to be exposed first, which wastes a lot of time.)
Third, talking about sectors. I haven't played 0.6.1...yet...so what I know I read from Farbs's blog post on his site. Here's what I'm thinking here: 1, give players ability to roam wherever, but have jackers be aggro'd to players up to three tiers above the jacker. If more than one player is in the area the jacker will aggro to the closest ship. 2, there will be on-board NAV for the given sector, but only the given sector. Oh, and players should have to trace out the map themselves. Also, NAV does not have enemy sighting, so hunters will have to seek out occupied areas of the sector themselves. I do think we should have sectors with PvP enabled.
Fourth, speed of combat. What this means is, how strong do we want modules to be compared to the weapons? I don't think modules would be strong enough to be just copied from Jameson; combat would proceed far too quickly for an MMORPG. Instead, have all modules be 2 or even 4x as strong, and players only do half damage or something to each other. What do you think?
Fifth, controls. I've kept NAV at F2, but now a double-mouse-click on a nearby station will contact it. Ships send out messages with Enter, structured like the chat feature in other MMORPG's. Most importantly, however, parts managing. Currently, my idea is the player has to wait 30 seconds outside of combat before the mouse can rearrange parts. That is, 30 seconds after the player fires weapons OR is hit by enemy fire.
That's what I have so far, though there are a few more in-depth discussions I don't want to extend this post with.
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Post by Foohman on Feb 4, 2014 20:09:53 GMT 10
I believe a co-op variety of game would suit Jameson better than having ships fight one-another, Auburn, perhaps a dueling mode would be a good idea though - a certain number of 'points' could be assigned to the duellists, and a build phase similar to that in Forever and Successor could allow a ship to be quickly constructed out of a certain number of parts, before the game begins.
As for co-op, oxygen sharing would be awesome - it would allow a member of the party to build an extremely nimble craft that can ferry oxygen back from freed stations to the rest of the party, encouraging teamwork.
Remember that the Forever series is supposed to be utterly unforgiving - you should know, Auburn. The difficulty level is, at least at first, very hard. Promoting teamwork and what-not would be exceptional in a game like this. I think that enemy ships should be disproportionately strong to what you can achieve - for example the alpha laser: if it does 500 damage on enemy modules, alpha lasers on enemy ships deal 750 to even 1000 damage. With this, it would balance the fact there would be player-controlled ships zipping around, obliterating ships in unfair 4 v 1 battles.
Perez, I had absolutely no idea English wasn't your first language, you type pretty well, I get what you're on about pretty much universally. I'll let you know if I'm not clear on something, and believe me I don't get upset if someone doesn't agree with what I say!
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gamemasterme
Bravo Rank
Christian. go on. judge me all you want. I don't mind.
Posts: 21
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Post by gamemasterme on Feb 5, 2014 7:03:57 GMT 10
BEEP New Subject: Stations I think that stations would be interesting if players could construct them. That way automatic trade could happen between players. Also, there could be factory stations that could be programmed to construct certain items, but only of the level that station was. Maybe you could melt down raw metal or ship parts, and use the metal to make parts. Perhaps certain metals would be used for certain parts, or the higher tier or Grade of part would require certain minerals, the the higher the tier/grade, the Rarer and harder to get the minerals would be. P.S. Very Happy to be part of this community. BEEP
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Post by auburnattack21 on Feb 5, 2014 7:22:03 GMT 10
Not a bad idea - I haven't even thought about having more types of minerals, though we should have them regardless. I still feel, however, that we should have somewhat of a control on the parts being made. Basically, it would work similar to the system in Captain Impostor - each tier is worth twice that of the next. So, for instance, if you wanted to melt down two Echos and make a Foxtrot, go to the nearest furnace station and insert the two Echos...wait an amount of time for the metal to be processed out, drag that metal to a factory (and I feel that factories should not manufacture just one tier and one type, but one type of any tier (or up to the tier of the factory). That way anyone that wants that weapon can make it at that factory. You pay a fee to the factory, wait a couple more minutes and out pops the new Foxtrot.
Due to the time it would take for this (anywhere from 1 to 15 minutes, depending on tier), it is another support for my idea of modules being a multiple as strong, so as to not be immediately destroyed.
EDIT: By the way, Perez, to answer your question about Lima, I was always thinking it would be somewhat of a light brown, or a sepia. Maybe like...this?
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Post by Foohman on Feb 5, 2014 7:38:31 GMT 10
I do like the idea of expanding the usage of minerals. Especially in regards to factories, that does sound good. Perhaps you have to fil a mineral "check-list" in order to build things at factories, rather than being able to purchase items. So for example, you need certain minerals for a repair module, and once you have those certain minerals, you can then build a certain amount depending on the size of the minerals attained. There would be, naturally, less factories. Perhaps to balance this slightly, there would be purchasable modules from pawnbrokers and what-not.
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Post by auburnattack21 on Feb 5, 2014 7:57:27 GMT 10
In that case, we need three things: - Sectors heavy in asteroid mining
- Regenerating ore, possibly à la RuneScape with expensive minerals in very difficult sectors
- Modules with the sole purpose to carry ore. I believe this was already introduced by Perez.
(By the way, let's get these ideas in one at a time - perfecting the wormhole and oxygen systems can come later.)
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Post by Foohman on Feb 5, 2014 8:09:29 GMT 10
You're right - it's just that the Forever series has so much scope, yet surprisingly little content.
I think mining and manufacturing are two avenues that would be best explored and worked upon, although I do find the wormholes a fairly incomplete feature, it's probably best to consolidate ideas in groups, as you're saying.
I'm not too keen on the idea of regenerating ore, as the game is intentionally hard and unforgiving, hence the permadeath. Heavy mining sectors are called Spelunk, and I believe those areas should be rich in factories (if minerals were required for manufacturing) and refineries (for straight-up cash). Perhaps even a mining-class of jacker? And yes, a mineral storing module would be very interesting, perhaps only for storing 1-3 minerals at a time though. I'm thinking a storage module akin to the dry storage you see in the Apartment buildings.
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Post by auburnattack21 on Feb 5, 2014 8:22:17 GMT 10
Well, I'm talking about an MMORPG-type thing, of course. I know you aren't...but if we are, we need asteroids months from now for new players to mine.
And also, if we're going to only be carrying three at a time, we'll probably want to be able to use warehouse space for storing materials...which will probably warrant an increase in warehouse storage space, and I think it would be best if that was based on tier.
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gamemasterme
Bravo Rank
Christian. go on. judge me all you want. I don't mind.
Posts: 21
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Post by gamemasterme on Feb 5, 2014 9:44:57 GMT 10
Returning to the fact of station building, I was thinking maybe you would be able to buy/salvage/make a module that you could drop out in space, then maybe, if you can't right click, you could shoot the module. Then you would either build the station manually, have it auto construct, or have it auto construct the station then edit that station. I think it would be cool if the more solar panels you had the faster you would produce/scrap/refine things, or something like that, also maybe the more dry storage modules you attached, the more you could store Etcetera. There would need to be balancing for stations, sizes, spaces between them, but I really do hope that if "Captain multiplayer" actually turned out to be a thing, I would really like stations to be able to be built by players. For that matter, shipyards would be cool, maybe there you could not only repair your ship, but have a menu where you could drag out parts and add them to your ship, then when you where done there would be a total cost. Also, please post your ideas for upgrading parts.
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Post by Perez on Feb 6, 2014 2:23:14 GMT 10
Making a multiplayer discussion was a success -- lots of, or really all of these ideas are brilliant! I like to see you tweak and agree on each others ideas. Now that Farbs is here, he can have a look at them and consider what he wants to do with them. If this Cpt. Jameson were to be turned into a somewhat MMO, then gamemasterme's idea about player-made stations would be a brilliant feature. I haven't got much to say, really, but I might just bash in your conversation, shouting out an idea whilst the light bulb hover above my head. Still, shortly said, I agree on most of these ideas like the most of us do. auburnattack21: Brown works, I'd say. It's a colour that hasn't been used yet, even though it might be a tad unpleasant colour. Sepia is pleasant, however! It doesn't matter what colour, really, but brown and sepia are good suggestions. Foohman: Haha, thanks. Very well, now you know at least.
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Post by auburnattack21 on Feb 6, 2014 3:10:23 GMT 10
Actually, I forgot something in my previous post, and that is, if Lima is going to work as sepia, Kilo can't glow rainbow anymore. It wouldn't really fit the progression. (In that guise, we can save rainbow for the next tier group, that is, Mike, November, and Oscar, which fire diamond lasers or something. 2,048,000 damage.)
Anyway, regarding player-made-stations, first off, we need a central city in a part of the sector hub. (Yeah...I'm keeping it to one city per sector.) That way, every city has at least some of the facilities we need. Then, there could be empty station spots available for leasing (for a number of days) to players who want to put in the credits. The amount of leasing goes up by tier, as usual. Then, the player picks the type of station they want to build, which will also cost credits. The stations available for construction: Factory, repair, apartment, scrap, refinery. At the end of the lease, any money generated by the station is wired to you. (For S and R, you get a percentage back on the value of the materials.)
I'm envisioning that in some far-off Juliet sector, one of the most active sectors for asteroid mining, there would be very few spots, and people would have to build refineries to process the materials.
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gamemasterme
Bravo Rank
Christian. go on. judge me all you want. I don't mind.
Posts: 21
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Post by gamemasterme on Feb 6, 2014 9:01:54 GMT 10
Maybe players could create their own settlements, once a certain level was passed, and far away enough from the central station city. I don't like the Idea of leasing, it would limit you to much. Also what do you think about my shipyard idea? (in one of my last posts in this subject) the hanger station? (read post below)
What the hangar station would do, is when you docked with it, you would have the option to buy another command pod that would be just like any other ship. you would also have he option to switch to another ship. This way you could keep a mining ship and a fighting ship. This would work between wormhole sectors.
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Post by auburnattack21 on Feb 6, 2014 9:44:37 GMT 10
The fundamental idea here is, we need the game to be playable and challenging months after release...if people start making settlements that are permanent...ooh! That actually gives me an idea. You think we could have jacker squadrons that raid settlements?
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gamemasterme
Bravo Rank
Christian. go on. judge me all you want. I don't mind.
Posts: 21
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Post by gamemasterme on Feb 6, 2014 11:13:45 GMT 10
Yes. And (I just started a sentence with and... I'm such a rebel) maybe their can be LARGE recourse costs for stations, and a limit on them, as well as the ability to construct defensive stations (lets not turn this into clash of clans though) etcetera, maybe player-made stations could be like the ones in captain Successor, you know, but maybe so they can point at their targets, or stations with slots for building turrets.
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Post by auburnattack21 on Feb 6, 2014 11:36:50 GMT 10
You mean like permanent defense fixtures? Fantastic, I didn't even think of that. It would actually serve as another balancer due to the large amount of expenses...again, we can't have stations all over the place.
Mind you though, that this would only be for player settlements - not to mention, lower-tier ones like Alpha wouldn't need it, because, in all seriousness, how useful will they be, and two, who is going to do enough damage to a station module at that level to destroy it?
So, about the Hangar/Shipyard you asked me about. I'm envisioning that there is one hangar in the world, which is at Haynesport, or whatever the central sector is. Basically, when you want to change ships, you have to retreat back to there - that way no one can abuse the system wherever they like. If you want to change ships, you have to put some effort in. It also guarantees that it is a hub, not just a tutorial zone.
Ah, one more thought that's popping into my head - from time to time in a sector, there will be large jacker armies that storm the main settlement. They can't kill any of the buildings, but they can kill players. (I really need to start writing these new things down.)
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